This is amazing Brett! I think the proposal that meta-mythological processes are the relevance realization of collective intelligence working in distributed cognition is bang on. Your final schema is also very helpful. You are quickly becoming the master of making these kinds of insightful connections. Thank you.
Hi Brett, the work I've been doing independently as a Story Editor for the past thirty years and as the creator of the Story Grid Methodology converges with your tightly constructed arguments here. The Cartesian grids I generate, which map the energy/information/pattern/meaning fluctuations of Story, using my methodology mirror the grids you feature from Stephen and Dixon. My work converges with John's work too (Story Grid will be publishing a two-volume companion book series to support Awakening from the Meaning Crisis next year) as well as Jordan Peterson's Maps of Meaning. I'd also cite The Immanent Metaphysics by Forrest Landry as the third pillar of influence on the discovery and explication of the SG Method. While Story Grid is a practical methodology, meaning Story Grid is a teaching platform to enable aspiring writers and editors to conform to what you are referring to as the Meta-Mythological process (I call it Hero's Journey 2.0) as described by Peterson, the underlying foundations are exactly as you explain here. Just wanted to let you know that I believe this is extraordinary work and absolutely essential to enable thoughtful and timely responses to this building global Kairos using the power of story to guide us. Thank you. Shawn Coyne
I believe a useful addition to the post, in order to further flesh out the connection between Jordan’s and John’s work, would be the link of the patterns within the meta-mythology to John’s four types of knowing: participatory, perspectival, procedural, and propositional.
Jordan’s work doesn’t dive into this, but I can imagine how these things could be connected rather easily for the ones instructed on the work of both.
Great read. You've provided a very clear overview of some very complicated stuff here. These are thinkers/ideas that I've also been wrestling with over the past few years, and I plan to write a bit on them myself, so I'm looking forward to reading more of your thoughts!
Thanks for this perspicacious article Brett. I have a question for you.
In John Vervaeke's model procedural knowledge is dependent on perspectival knowledge which is associated with episodic memory whereas in Jordan Peterson's model procedural memory seems to precede episodic memory. How can these differences be reconciled? John in AFTMC talks about his layers of knowing in terms of asymmetric dependency. It seems more intuitive to me that representational memory is dependent upon memory of action considering that one must act in order to exist but must not necessarily remember past actions in order to be. Can you help me with these contradictory considerations?
This post brought together many threads that have been poking around for me in "this corner of the internet" for a while. "Standing on the border between order and chaos" makes a ton more sense to me now, and the link to The Way and storytelling resonate deeply. Breaking a frame before a descent into chaos, until a more mature model comes out also "re-framed" recent experiences in my life a bit.
Perhaps this is only coming up for me because I watched the dialogos with Vervaeke, Pageau, and Peterson recently but it also seems that perhaps The Good maps onto the order of intelligibility and the ability to "build" that it affords, while The Beautiful maps onto those moments of unpredictability and insight that disclose themselves. Perhaps "the self" is the ultimate frame that needs breaking, or the last critical barrier before one empties into the final complex-order. Thanks for tying these threads together so lucidly and sharing.
Yes, I will probably make a post at some point about "the self" as a deep frame (perhaps even "the" deep frame) that needs breaking. I've had similar ideas. I'm glad you found the post useful.
This is amazing Brett! I think the proposal that meta-mythological processes are the relevance realization of collective intelligence working in distributed cognition is bang on. Your final schema is also very helpful. You are quickly becoming the master of making these kinds of insightful connections. Thank you.
Thank you John, I'm glad you found it useful.
Hi Brett, the work I've been doing independently as a Story Editor for the past thirty years and as the creator of the Story Grid Methodology converges with your tightly constructed arguments here. The Cartesian grids I generate, which map the energy/information/pattern/meaning fluctuations of Story, using my methodology mirror the grids you feature from Stephen and Dixon. My work converges with John's work too (Story Grid will be publishing a two-volume companion book series to support Awakening from the Meaning Crisis next year) as well as Jordan Peterson's Maps of Meaning. I'd also cite The Immanent Metaphysics by Forrest Landry as the third pillar of influence on the discovery and explication of the SG Method. While Story Grid is a practical methodology, meaning Story Grid is a teaching platform to enable aspiring writers and editors to conform to what you are referring to as the Meta-Mythological process (I call it Hero's Journey 2.0) as described by Peterson, the underlying foundations are exactly as you explain here. Just wanted to let you know that I believe this is extraordinary work and absolutely essential to enable thoughtful and timely responses to this building global Kairos using the power of story to guide us. Thank you. Shawn Coyne
Thank you Shawn. I'm looking forward to seeing your work on Awakening from the Meaning Crisis and Maps of Meaning.
HI, very excited for the 2023 book release! where to follow the updates and preorder?
Beautifully put, Brett.
I believe a useful addition to the post, in order to further flesh out the connection between Jordan’s and John’s work, would be the link of the patterns within the meta-mythology to John’s four types of knowing: participatory, perspectival, procedural, and propositional.
Jordan’s work doesn’t dive into this, but I can imagine how these things could be connected rather easily for the ones instructed on the work of both.
Once again, great article!
Awesome blog!
Hi Brett,
Great read. You've provided a very clear overview of some very complicated stuff here. These are thinkers/ideas that I've also been wrestling with over the past few years, and I plan to write a bit on them myself, so I'm looking forward to reading more of your thoughts!
Thanks for this perspicacious article Brett. I have a question for you.
In John Vervaeke's model procedural knowledge is dependent on perspectival knowledge which is associated with episodic memory whereas in Jordan Peterson's model procedural memory seems to precede episodic memory. How can these differences be reconciled? John in AFTMC talks about his layers of knowing in terms of asymmetric dependency. It seems more intuitive to me that representational memory is dependent upon memory of action considering that one must act in order to exist but must not necessarily remember past actions in order to be. Can you help me with these contradictory considerations?
This post brought together many threads that have been poking around for me in "this corner of the internet" for a while. "Standing on the border between order and chaos" makes a ton more sense to me now, and the link to The Way and storytelling resonate deeply. Breaking a frame before a descent into chaos, until a more mature model comes out also "re-framed" recent experiences in my life a bit.
Perhaps this is only coming up for me because I watched the dialogos with Vervaeke, Pageau, and Peterson recently but it also seems that perhaps The Good maps onto the order of intelligibility and the ability to "build" that it affords, while The Beautiful maps onto those moments of unpredictability and insight that disclose themselves. Perhaps "the self" is the ultimate frame that needs breaking, or the last critical barrier before one empties into the final complex-order. Thanks for tying these threads together so lucidly and sharing.
Yes, I will probably make a post at some point about "the self" as a deep frame (perhaps even "the" deep frame) that needs breaking. I've had similar ideas. I'm glad you found the post useful.
Please make this post!
This might help
https://stephenpirie.com/files/stephen-pirie-one-all_1996-2019.jpg
From this article
https://stephenpirie.com/timeless-knowledge
btw, the "natural" interface between nonlocal potentials and local actuality is fractal.